The debate should never have gotten passed the use of the word "transitioned". It is impossible to transition from one sex (or gender) to the other. This is a scientific fact. What we can and should focus on is the mental anguish and confusion so many people are experiencing. This is a psychological and sociological problem, i.e., not biological. Moreover, it is one thing to facilitate an adult in surgically and chemically altering his/her body, but a morally reprehensive position to advocate and facilitate in any way doing this to a child. There is no debate.
Mass child sterilization and genital mutilation is probably a bad idea..... who would have thought? Oh, wait, every sane human for all of time. The insane ones pushing child genital mutilation and sterilization are never the good guys, and it’s not different this time.
I speak several languages, Dutch among them (I speak it half the time at home) and lived in Holland through the 90’s. Dutch medicine doesn’t quite work the way it does in the US. My observation is that of the several doctors I had, and my administrative assistant, there is a universal “all knowing” arrogance which even compared to when it occurs in US doctors, is breathtaking. If you have a difference of opinion, Dutch protocol is to belittle, ignore or dispute the patient’s view. My administrative assistant delivered twins prematurely; they were given excessive oxygen and promptly developed mild blindness (ROP) - she had to debate with them that something was going wrong (apparently they thought pregnant women too excessively fussy) and pushed to go home quickly after birth even when she wasn’t feeling well, she developed maternal sepsis and almost died (doctors learned to wash their hands to prevent it around 1850). I use Valacyclovir when I sense a herpes lesion starting on my lips. Attempting to get a prescription was an exercise in frustration. My French doctors (I worked in Paris also) talked with me, immediately, moved me from Acyclovir to Valacyclovir), and simply handed me the prescription from their own stock. I also had a doctor in the UK, that’s a story in itself.
You’ll note that the boy who desisted in the film, he and his mother were ignored - she was already thinking that he was just gay. The center and particularly the woman leading it were very clearly in the business of attention, and facts and poor practice were not going to stand in their way.
What’s going on is of course a major medical scandal, and that group, and the woman were the origin. They will pretend they were just doing ethical science, and will prevaricate about using European guidelines. It is extremely similar to an experimental treatment “deep sleep therapy” in Australia, where patents were kept in a coma for several weeks to let their psyche repair. Unfortunately many died. There was no indication that the treatment helped anything of course, and the doctor administering it insisted it did.
The word here is Quack. Charlatan is also good. This group claims special knowledge they don’t actually have.
Of final interest is perhaps in Dutch they referred constantly what heard was puberty “brakes” or “inhibitor” not the English “puberty blocker” - it obviously had a different sense, it’s even more euphemistic. The Dutch are usually plain-spoken. The flickering contempt in the faces of the Swedish and Finnish doctors was amusing.
As a documentary, it was Quite Dutch, with play-acted re-creations of events and annoying throbbing doom music. It was hard to watch true-crime or 20/20 style sensational journalism in this medical context but I discounted the manipulation as naïveté. The information presented would have the same impact without
The battle is between truth and power. This is a fundamental conflict in our human natures. Are we seeking to understand or imposing our will? Fellow seekers rejoice in each other's company on the journey to truth, even if their views are opposing. But they have a problem with those set on imposing their views. Oppressors suppress alternatives and the search for alternatives, and therefore truth seekers. Oppressors love to fellowship with their adherents in a movement for power and control. Truth seekers must unite in resistance, exposing the weaknesses, deceit and harm caused by ideological oppression with the searchlight of facts and evidence. That is why I am so pleased to see the Dutch Protocols challenged on medical,legal, ethical, scientific and cultural grounds in the Netherlands. Courageous, united defense and use of freedom of thought and freedom of speech, analytically and "scientifically", is the bulwark against which a surge of misguided theorizing can be halted.
I hope that the emergence of public dissent among "gender treatment" professionals in European countries will eventually be recognized as evidence that medicalized transitions of children are not universally endorsed by healthcare providers, contrary to what WPATH leaders have falsely claimed. The existence of a debate among scientists and clinicians can and has already been used to legally challenge WPATH's stated position that their protocol is the standard of care universally accepted by healthcare professionals. The developments discussed in the SEGM article are very necessary and important steps towards empowering injured patients and their families, and undermining the power of WPATH to influence the courses of lawsuits and legislation.
I dated a guy once who had taken puberty blockers (growing up in Iran) to delay puberty because he was concerned about being too small. The theory was that if he hit puberty while small, he wouldn’t get any taller. Well, when I dated him as an adult, he was still small and slight, but he also had some severe emotional issues. He definitely seemed like a perpetual child in many ways - he anthropomorphised stuffed animal toys (he was 25), and would throw tantrums. I don’t know if this was because of trauma or puberty blockers or both.
Having started this ball rolling, I expect the Netherlands will be among the first to experience the huge wave of regretful detransitioners that will inevitably follow. All the same, it seems slightly unfair that 'Netherlands' is almost a perfect anagram of "Neanderthals"!
The debate should never have gotten passed the use of the word "transitioned". It is impossible to transition from one sex (or gender) to the other. This is a scientific fact. What we can and should focus on is the mental anguish and confusion so many people are experiencing. This is a psychological and sociological problem, i.e., not biological. Moreover, it is one thing to facilitate an adult in surgically and chemically altering his/her body, but a morally reprehensive position to advocate and facilitate in any way doing this to a child. There is no debate.
Mass child sterilization and genital mutilation is probably a bad idea..... who would have thought? Oh, wait, every sane human for all of time. The insane ones pushing child genital mutilation and sterilization are never the good guys, and it’s not different this time.
I speak several languages, Dutch among them (I speak it half the time at home) and lived in Holland through the 90’s. Dutch medicine doesn’t quite work the way it does in the US. My observation is that of the several doctors I had, and my administrative assistant, there is a universal “all knowing” arrogance which even compared to when it occurs in US doctors, is breathtaking. If you have a difference of opinion, Dutch protocol is to belittle, ignore or dispute the patient’s view. My administrative assistant delivered twins prematurely; they were given excessive oxygen and promptly developed mild blindness (ROP) - she had to debate with them that something was going wrong (apparently they thought pregnant women too excessively fussy) and pushed to go home quickly after birth even when she wasn’t feeling well, she developed maternal sepsis and almost died (doctors learned to wash their hands to prevent it around 1850). I use Valacyclovir when I sense a herpes lesion starting on my lips. Attempting to get a prescription was an exercise in frustration. My French doctors (I worked in Paris also) talked with me, immediately, moved me from Acyclovir to Valacyclovir), and simply handed me the prescription from their own stock. I also had a doctor in the UK, that’s a story in itself.
You’ll note that the boy who desisted in the film, he and his mother were ignored - she was already thinking that he was just gay. The center and particularly the woman leading it were very clearly in the business of attention, and facts and poor practice were not going to stand in their way.
What’s going on is of course a major medical scandal, and that group, and the woman were the origin. They will pretend they were just doing ethical science, and will prevaricate about using European guidelines. It is extremely similar to an experimental treatment “deep sleep therapy” in Australia, where patents were kept in a coma for several weeks to let their psyche repair. Unfortunately many died. There was no indication that the treatment helped anything of course, and the doctor administering it insisted it did.
The word here is Quack. Charlatan is also good. This group claims special knowledge they don’t actually have.
Of final interest is perhaps in Dutch they referred constantly what heard was puberty “brakes” or “inhibitor” not the English “puberty blocker” - it obviously had a different sense, it’s even more euphemistic. The Dutch are usually plain-spoken. The flickering contempt in the faces of the Swedish and Finnish doctors was amusing.
As a documentary, it was Quite Dutch, with play-acted re-creations of events and annoying throbbing doom music. It was hard to watch true-crime or 20/20 style sensational journalism in this medical context but I discounted the manipulation as naïveté. The information presented would have the same impact without
I didn’t see the follow-up films.
The battle is between truth and power. This is a fundamental conflict in our human natures. Are we seeking to understand or imposing our will? Fellow seekers rejoice in each other's company on the journey to truth, even if their views are opposing. But they have a problem with those set on imposing their views. Oppressors suppress alternatives and the search for alternatives, and therefore truth seekers. Oppressors love to fellowship with their adherents in a movement for power and control. Truth seekers must unite in resistance, exposing the weaknesses, deceit and harm caused by ideological oppression with the searchlight of facts and evidence. That is why I am so pleased to see the Dutch Protocols challenged on medical,legal, ethical, scientific and cultural grounds in the Netherlands. Courageous, united defense and use of freedom of thought and freedom of speech, analytically and "scientifically", is the bulwark against which a surge of misguided theorizing can be halted.
I hope that the emergence of public dissent among "gender treatment" professionals in European countries will eventually be recognized as evidence that medicalized transitions of children are not universally endorsed by healthcare providers, contrary to what WPATH leaders have falsely claimed. The existence of a debate among scientists and clinicians can and has already been used to legally challenge WPATH's stated position that their protocol is the standard of care universally accepted by healthcare professionals. The developments discussed in the SEGM article are very necessary and important steps towards empowering injured patients and their families, and undermining the power of WPATH to influence the courses of lawsuits and legislation.
I dated a guy once who had taken puberty blockers (growing up in Iran) to delay puberty because he was concerned about being too small. The theory was that if he hit puberty while small, he wouldn’t get any taller. Well, when I dated him as an adult, he was still small and slight, but he also had some severe emotional issues. He definitely seemed like a perpetual child in many ways - he anthropomorphised stuffed animal toys (he was 25), and would throw tantrums. I don’t know if this was because of trauma or puberty blockers or both.
This may be a minor positive sign that sanity regarding this issue will re-emerge before too long.
Having started this ball rolling, I expect the Netherlands will be among the first to experience the huge wave of regretful detransitioners that will inevitably follow. All the same, it seems slightly unfair that 'Netherlands' is almost a perfect anagram of "Neanderthals"!